Mike Capuzzi: My guest today is Mitch Carson. If you're in the direct response marketing Dan Kennedy world, you would probably recognize his name as Mitch is known around the world for his marketing and media advice. Mitch is the author of 17 books, but today we're going to focus our conversation on how nonfiction book authors can get more media exposure, which is a good thing, and potentially even leverage being a guest speaker on stages around the world. Mitch, welcome to the show.

Mitch Carson: Thanks for having me, Mike. I've been looking forward to this all week.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah, well, I have two, because when you reached out to me a month or so ago, I immediately recognized your name. I have your book, one of your books from years ago that I learned about through Dan Kennedy at the time. I remember, and I know, I think you're still involved at some level, but you were known as this expert in promotional products and using promotional products as a marketing strategy. And if I recall, Mitch, you even were a columnist in his newsletter, right?

Mitch Carson: Yeah, for about three years.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah. Yeah. So you're. You're one of the OG’s of the Kennedy and direct marketing world as we know it today. So, Mitch, I wanted to very purposely keep the intro quick and short because you've got a pretty amazing background. To literally say you've been around the world and back is an understatement. So, for my listeners, share a little bit more about what you've done up until what you're doing today.

Mitch Carson: Oh, gosh. It goes back to. I mean, I started on my speaking journey literally 40 years ago, and it came out of a passion I had. You know, my story was, I didn't come from rags. I came from riches, and I ended up in rags because I lost my parents when I was 22 years old. So, just full disclosure, I grew up in Beverly Hills, so I didn't come. I don't have this rags to riches story. I have riches to rags where I lost everything because I went on a downward spiral of drugs and alcohol and was in tremendous debt to get out of that.

Mitch Carson: And I was an only child, so I literally had to pull myself out of that because I was on death's door. Both, uh, financially and spiritually and physically, uh, ended up in a hospital after going through what I went through and then was gifted. I don't want to get too spiritual, but let's just say I was gifted life, and I'll. I'll stay focused on business, but just the small piece I was gifted, the opportunity to live again and to live a life. And after a while, being this super introverted brainy person. I was just the school geek prior to that, was able to start speaking about my experience so I could pay it forward and give back to other people, people who had gone through what I went through in different capacities. And it was my privilege to share. And I sucked when I spoke.

Mitch Carson: In the beginning, I wasn't good. I did it. It all came from the heart and was simply a following, a model, a twelve step model of what happened, what it's like today. And you know, how do I, how do I help other people is really the roadmap that I followed. And one of the men that attended one of my presentations, or sharing if you will, in the twelve step program, invited me to come speak and he asked me. We became friendly to his group in Washington, state of Washington, Seattle, on what I was doing with my business at that point. I'd straightened my life out, started my ad specialty business, and then got into becoming an expert in that area out of survival. And I came to speak at his, to a small gathering of loan originators in Seattle.

Mitch Carson: Was the first time I was paid to speak. I had been speaking for free, out of passion and privilege. Then I was paid to speak. I got $500 keynote fee, which was big money to me at that time, for something that I'd been doing for free. He flew me up business class from LA to Seattle, picked me up at the airport, put me up in a five star hotel for a night, and then the next day I spoke at lunch, then he hustled me off to the airport. But I also sold from the stage that day, about 60 if I recall. It's been a number of years, Mike, but 60 plus thousand dollars in programs for people that clients came to me and said, I want to be able to do that. It was direct mail information, unique direct dimensional mail programs that I'd put together.

Mitch Carson: And it was a lot of it was the origin of me writing this book, you know, the Silent Salesman, published by John Wiley and Sons some years later. There were a lot of these case studies, so I realized, oh my gosh, I've been doing this for free. I have this ad agency that I have created focusing on direct mail, and ad specialty items were integrated. And I also had a trade show division. I had really grown this from scratch and it was a true startup, which I later sold the Halo branded Solutions out of Chicago. A publicly traded company was able to do that and built it up because I was focused on a niche business. I wasn't your general ad agency, but I focused on unique mailing solutions around direct mail. And that's what was the impetus for me to write my book, which Dan Kennedy urged me to write, was through his push, gentle push in his very brash way, to write this book, because I had all these case studies and expertise on this topic.

Mitch Carson: And then Dan was the one that pushed me to speak on stages. Also been a pitchman on home shopping network at that point, for about three years, I would take other people's products because I had an expertise in pitching, which I developed over time. Was not good, but it was trial and error, trial, and error, fall on my face, dust myself off, and get. And I got to where I was pretty good. And that was the lead in to now speaking on stages around the world. I mean, I could sit here and talk and give you the timeline. Let's just say everything progressed after I became an author. And the big thing I want to share with your group, I know I'm probably preaching to the choir, Mike, with you and some of the other authors, but my mindset changed dramatically when I became a published author.

Mitch Carson: I felt I deserved to make big money. Six figures was where I had been comfortable. I jumped to seven figures. Plus, when I became a published author with John Wiley and Sons, and felt I deserved. I felt I deserved to have the riches that others did because I had gone beyond getting a bachelor's degree. I mean, after I came, overcame my drug and alcohol problem, I went back to college, got a degree at University of Southern California. Some years later, I returned and got my MBA, but nothing compared to being a published authorization, because what was in my book came out of my MBA program. I wrote my masters thesis, and much of it was then used as content for my book with John Wiley and Sons.

Mitch Carson: And I felt I deserved what all these other big mastermind members were making. I mean, most people in Dan's mastermind were seven figure earners, plus in the information products business. And I said, well, I got some catching up to do, and now I have the absolute credentials that I deserve it. This was my own limit, self limiting belief. I suspect you can relate to that. We're as big as we allow ourselves to be. We are as successful as we allow ourselves to be. Sure, there require systems you have to implement and change and grow and be open minded.

Mitch Carson: But it was a complete mindset shift. That's why I'm such an advocate of writing books, and I'm not speaking anything different. If you were to hear recordings from me across the net, I say the same thing. If you've got an expertise, put it in print. Credentialize yourself. Use media to leverage that. So you are, without question, a king in your category. You can have another king.

Mitch Carson: There can be other people in your category. I mean, if you were to write a book on leadership, good luck. There are four zillion authors in that category. You've got to compete with some of the big name people, but you can certainly carve a niche for yourself if you separate yourself from the rest. If you. If you want to compete with a gorilla and you're a little spider monkey, good luck. Pick another tree to go hang in, and you, too can grab bananas endlessly. You just have to know where to go.

Mitch Carson: Ooh, that's an easy cliche. You have to know where to go. Roll the snow. Yeah, and roll that snow into a snowball.

Mike Capuzzi: So, Mitch, let me, you know, a lot to unpack there, and I really do want to rewind because I know you sort of went past it quickly because we're on a business podcast, but at the time when your life was really the richest of rags, if you will.

Mitch Carson: Yes.

Mike Capuzzi: You said you were given the gift of life.

Mitch Carson: Yes.

Mike Capuzzi: Did you realize it at that time? Was it sort of like that life changing moment? Did it? Or did you realize it in hindsight? But it sounds like it's probably the former, just because that's how you took that turn. But I don't think that's something we should just gloss over. Excuse me. Because, you know, it happens to everybody, right? And for you, for you to recognize it at that time at a young age is pretty amazing.

Mitch Carson: Yeah, I was 23, and I'm happy to discuss it because I'm at the age now of 63, Mike, where I suffer from. I don't care what people think of me at this point, and it's my. And I also had a heart attack back in, in December, which gave, it was another flexion point in my life. But the first flection point was at age 23. I was sitting in front of the tv. Yes, there were televisions back then, Gen. Zer’s. And I was watching a program at four in the morning, sitting alone with a pile of cocaine on a plate.

Mitch Carson: And on came a commercial called care unit, which showed the visual image I want to communicate and I'll use words to describe it. The camera said, this is what happens when you have a free based cocaine addiction, which I had. And the camera was beneath the grave, shining or projecting through a piece of plexiglass, and the dirt started piling on, meaning you end up dead. You end up in a grave. That visual image impacted me right there with a bleeding nose, with a wheeze, because I had a serious free based cocaine addiction. That right there changed my life forever. I never looked back. I then picked up the.

Mitch Carson: Grabbed the yellow pages. There was no Google back then. Grabbed a yellow pages, a thick yellow pages. I grew up in LA, and I called the number because that number was busy. Then I grabbed the yellow pages to find an open rehab that would take me in, and they took me in in the morning.

Mike Capuzzi: Wow.

Mitch Carson: And that was the change. July 1, 1984.

Mike Capuzzi: Wow.

Mitch Carson: So that was my change where I chose to live versus I was inevitably on a spiral to die.

Mike Capuzzi: Well, you know. And what's so amazing, a couple things. First of all, a, at that young age, you were that aware. I mean, that you're right, and that is beyond yourself, that realization. Right. You were more of which, obviously, you've done. So just truly amazing. And then the other thing that's very interesting, Mitch, is what you just shared is the reason I always encourage people, because people are listening to this right now that have yet to write that first book.

Mike Capuzzi: And we're going to talk about books in a moment. But I always say, you don't know who needs your book. The fact that you saw that tv commercial or that show changed your life. The same for books. People write their books from their own experiences. They don't know who's reading them. But as you and I both know, with yourself, with your clients, someone needs that book, and that book is going to change a life. Chances are you won't know as the author.

Mike Capuzzi: Sometimes you do. Sometimes people reach out to you, etcetera. But like, just like that tv commercial was a life changing moment for you. That's why I. I encourage people. Get out of your own way. Write that damn book.

Mitch Carson: Oh, it is. It's absolutely a flexion pivot point in the life. For me, in the business context, obviously, it goes back to that day, July or June 30, 1984. July 1 is my first day of sobriety, where everything changed in my life. And then there's that long journey in my professional life. I would say much more so than earning my MBA or my undergraduate degree. All these things which were gifts of me being clean and sober, and I should say not, but. And a big shift was when I saw my name in print on a book.

Mitch Carson: It credentialized me not only to the public, but to myself. To myself, Mike, it was validation. And I don't care who you are, unless you are somebody I'll leave out of the conversation. You know, in the political arena. We all need validation. We all need sometimes to impress ourselves. Other people may say things about us, but we need to confirm it. And every time I might feel bummed out or all I have to do is I wrote this book, I wrote this book, I wrote this book, I've done these programs and I'm not so bad.

Mitch Carson: After all. If I get into a state of self doubt, which happens rarely these days, but in my early days, younger, it felt, I don't have much self doubt anymore. I've got too much external validation. Beyond the business accolades that I've received through my actions, the accolades that I have given myself, the personal gratification that's gone into Mitch have come through. And I'd say the biggest confirmation has. I mean, books for me, and I know you're the book guy, so you get it, you can appreciate it. And there's no greater joy than when I've guided and helped other people speak from the stage when they never thought it was possible before getting them on television, where they nail it in the interview. All of these things are greater now as my role as a mentor and as a coach and as a teacher.

Mitch Carson: That's what they call me in Asia, teacher Mitch. They don't use the, the guru word. That's more for India, I think. And, you know, some people use the mentor word that are stuck on that. I like the teacher and coach. It's a little bit softer. It. It's.

Mitch Carson: It's extracts or it's less ego involved and it's truly the role I am. I'm involved in because I went through, when I went through college, you have a teacher, you have a professor, and after a while, the relationship sunsets. And I like that. Whereas I don't want to create dependence on Mitch. I know we share some background of different people we've studied under and they want to create that dependency on their teaching. And I don't know if that's healthy. That isn't the way I operate. At some point, I want to release somebody.

Mitch Carson: I want to teach them not only how to fish. Fish well, fish for yourself and teach others. That's paying it forward, helping other people. That's where I stand today.

Mike Capuzzi: I have to take one quick left turn and then we're going to come back.

Mitch Carson: And I wanted to make sure, really.

Mike Capuzzi: Brief, because it was, again, one of those little tidbits you shared several minutes ago, which I thought was interesting, and I know you've shared it to me on a previous conversation we had. So when you were with HSN were you one of those. Were you on, like, an on air talent all the time? Like, were you part of the team, or were you brought in, like, as almost a contractor to.

Mitch Carson: I was a contractor where. Okay, I was not an employee of. I was a contractor of. I would represent other people, and I did that for about three years. But it was multiple products that I would pitch most people. There are a lot of people that are great at ideas, but they don't know how to package it up and sell it. That in itself is an art form.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah, for sure.

Mitch Carson: I was good at that. So I was the one that came in. I would take people's products and pitch it for them. Sometimes they were my products. Most of the time they were not, but I was a contractor. Perfect distinction there.

Mike Capuzzi: One of the reasons I was really looking forward to this conversation is because your expertise in helping book authors. So we're going to focus on nonfiction, which is your specialty, also nonfiction book authors. I mean, writing the book is great. We're not going to focus on that today. We know there's lots of different ways to write it. All that good stuff.

Mitch Carson: Sure, sure.

Mike Capuzzi: We both know, as marketers, Mitch, that the hard part actually becomes when that book is printed and done. Published and done.

Mitch Carson: Correct. It's everything.

Mike Capuzzi: That's the real work.

Mitch Carson: That's the perspiration, I think. Who was it? Thomas Edison said it's 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah. Well, I don't know if he was talking about book publishing, but it bodes well. So your ex, one of your expertise is being able to help book authors getting on stages, getting media exposure. I just happened to be. As I was getting ready for our conversation today, I was watching a plethora of your very real media interviews on real tv, etcetera. Let's focus some time on this. Someone's listening. Let's.

Mike Capuzzi: And most people these days, Mitch, are self publishing. I mean, there's still people going the traditional route, but most people are doing it because of the simplicity, speed, etcetera. I'm a self published offer authorization. Listening to Mitch Carson right now. What should I be thinking when it comes to media exposure? What? What are you talking about? What is it? Et cetera?

Mitch Carson: Here's my take on it. And this, of course, will evolve over time where it was 20 years ago versus where it is today. Today, a published author must be taken seriously via social media. And because if I were to get you booked on Fox Five, which is one of my media partners here in Las Vegas, that I work with. I work with all five major networks in English. There are a couple in Spanish that are here, but I won't talk about those. That would be another language. That is my second language, but not, not applicable here is if I were to get you on Fox five, the first thing the media booking agent is going to do is google you.

Mitch Carson: It's a verb. They're going to look at your LinkedIn, they're going to look at your social media. They're looking for reasons not to use you. It's a deselection process more than it is a selection. If you have anything that is, let's say, contrary to the brand parameters of Fox, which is a big brand, they're not going to book you. And I say that because it happened to me with a, with a client two months ago. He didn't reveal something about. I'm not going to mention who it is.

Mitch Carson: It's not important. He was an author. They did some background check on him. He wasn't who he said he was. They found out who you say you are. If you're having pictures, if you are. Most of the people we're going to work with, Mike, are mature. They're self out in the.

Mitch Carson: These are grown ups. They're not kids shaking their rear ends on TikTok. Okay, which is another ridiculous topic, but we'll stay on, on topic here. They're going to look at your YouTube because they're going to want to see how you sound and come across on, on camera. It's inferior that to real tv. If you have past media coverage on network television, and I emphasize network, I'm not referring to Billy Bob's, you know, YouTube channel where, you know, he's exposing his butt crack on live tv or on his YouTube channel. Not applicable. You may want to make sure you're not on that.

Mitch Carson: Be careful what media you do accept, because if you want to play in the big leagues, you've got to check the right boxes. And in order to check the right boxes, make sure your brand is pristine. If you've written a book, great. Most of my clients are book authors. Matter of fact, all of them have gone through my media program here in Las Vegas, are authors of books. It's not critical, but really helpful. So you have a tight LinkedIn page filled out completely. You are a professional.

Mitch Carson: You have a professional headshot. You have at least a YouTube channel with a dozen videos or more that are professionally edited, and you have footage to prove and credentials that prove you are in fact an expert in your category. And that's necessary right at the gate. And I need to, in order for me to get somebody booked, and I guarantee booking because, but they must go through my media screen screening and training first. My reputation is online on the line, and I need to prepare you or prepare, prepare the guests to speak in soundbites, to be on focus. And our creator gave us two ears and one mouth. That means you talk less and you listen more. And you've got to take into account your message to match the audience that is listening.

Mitch Carson: It's all about the audience. This isn't about you. It's about how the audience will benefit from your book, and we will cover this. You've probably talked about this with your authors at some point, but I will deep dive and drill into what is it that they will take away. Here's, here are the viewers. This is the demographic of the viewers for this show. How will it benefit them? You know, if it's about knitting, great. Then we have to make sure that Marge is receptive to your knitting book.

Mitch Carson: And if it's a sports book, a sports show, I don't think knitting applies. So we have to, you got to have the message to market match very clearly and you're prepared. You're prepared. These are professional journalists. These are professional television journalists, interview hosts. They will do their background on you. It's their job. They will read up on you before you go on set.

Mitch Carson: Live television has no forgiveness. It's live, actually. There's no delay. It's live, immediate live. So we need to prep you. And the last thing that could ever happen, and it will never happen on my watch, is someone freezes when on camera. It happened to me when I had my radio show on CB's in LA with a woman that was a big shot realtor in an area called Hidden Hills, California. She came on the show and she froze.

Mitch Carson: I had to fill in for her because she just, she was this tall, statuesque former model, five foot ten, blonde, beautiful woman. But when she saw that sign that said on air, she turned into a three year old child that needed her blankie. Yeah. So it's got to go through this vetting process to be totally prepared. You don't walk. You don't become a, a major movie star without practicing your lines. We're practicing your lines so you're effective. And then that's a leverageable media.

Mitch Carson: If you want to get into a bigger market, if you want to get into LA or New York, you better be on point. Buddy or Betty? Buddy and Betty, you're going to be on point, prepared.

Mike Capuzzi: So, Mitch, let me ask you something when it comes to media, because, and this is a loaded question, because I'm going to even rail against even what we're doing at this very moment. But it's funny, because I was mentioning to you last week that Kennedy has been, I still read Dan. Dan does a private newsletter, and he's been railing against podcasts. It's not really real for the most part, as far as media. So obviously the Internet has made media in quotes, a lot easier. Podcasting, YouTube, anybody with a camera, a microphone can now get on and do what you and I are doing. And yes, it's still a step in the right direction.

Mike Capuzzi: Right. I'd love to get your take, though. Again, podcast guesting is important. You're doing it at this very moment. I do it all the time, etcetera. But is it really the type of media that you're talking about, traditional broadcast, over the air media, whether it's radio or in your case, now, you're focusing on tv, real tv, that is still different. Even in 2024, that kind of media is different. I mean, I know podcasting and all is important, critically important, but it's still different, right?

Mitch Carson: Totally different. And in a podcast, we can have a, we can go down various rabbit holes of discussion. When you are on a two and a half minute to four minute spot on a news station, you know, they are completely tied to the timing. They will cut you off. You must be on point. They have advertiser, that is, advertisers who've paid for placements, and they will be barbecued if they are not covering those advertisers. Breaking news comes in on occasion. Things happen.

Mitch Carson: You know, when, when Donald Trump, when there was the assassination attempt, some programs got set aside and had to be made up for later because that was breaking news. It's completely different. And I agree and disagree with Dan. I agree because he and I are both old school and you've got to be trained and for anybody to hang a shingle. And hey, it's my podcast. Let me give you an example. When I decided to become a podcast guest, and I'm going to start my own show at one point later, but I want to do at least 50 guest appearances to understand the landscape. And it's an entirely different platform.

Mitch Carson: It's not the same. You cannot guess the same. And Dan is correct, because any Billy Bob can open up and say, I'm a podcaster. Well, I did a podcast, my very first one from the same venue where we connected was there. And he's a well known podcast, but I'm not going to say his name. He does two to three shows a day. A day. He's one of the bigger podcasters out there in terms of volume, sheer volume.

Mitch Carson: He was the worst interviewer I've had to date. It's terrible. And that's a perfect example of somebody that may have volume and rent and says, I've got this. I'm big. Because he was terrible. The worst interview. He made every mistake under the sun. He didn't know how to deep dive.

Mitch Carson: He was distracted. I think he'd done it so many times, he was bored, and it showed there was no quality. Quantity, yes. No quality. That might be part of what Dan's talking about now. This person had no media background when he decided to launch his podcast. He was so whomever and just, he rode the trend. Saw, this is going up.

Mitch Carson: Podcasting is cool. And I think Dan is correct with somebody like that. However, someone that may have a direct marketing background, such as yourself or other people, you're asking salient questions, you've been intrigued, you're going down the right angles, and I'm not here to kiss your butt. I don't need to. It's true, though, that some are way outside of their element, and they have no business becoming a host, in my opinion. I've had a couple interviews that were almost as bad as the first guy, and one was using earbuds for his interview with me. There was no sound, and there was, there were sirens going off in the background. I mean, a host of issues that were, that were there.

Mitch Carson: So you gotta be prepared. And I think the barrier to entry is very low. To become a podcaster, possibly. And I didn't read Dan's newsletter. I'm not a subscriber anymore, but I bet he was. I know his, his, his manner.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah. So I'm not just, I think where he's, well, I know where he's coming from. And part of that is what you just said. But I think, again, being a decades old market, and I say that with affection, it's the quality of the audience, I think, is where he's going. So, you know, as a platform speaker, there is few, if that's probably, I'm guessing, is that is if there's any place Mitch Carson would like to be, it's either on stage or maybe on broadcast tv, but, you know, from a, from a ability to sell either an idea or a product, there's nothing like it on a podcast. Yes. It's long form yada, yada, yada, but it doesn't have that. And that's where I was going with this.

Mike Capuzzi: In your experience for a book author, if they can be on stage, if they can be on tv in Las Vegas, Fox, the Fox affiliate in Las Vegas, or they can be on Mike Capuzzi's podcast. We know where they sort of rank, right?

Mitch Carson: I think they're all important and there's.

Mike Capuzzi: They all we know, which is going to have the bigger, probably the biggest bang for the buck.

Mitch Carson: Yeah. And I'll rank it. And this is no disrespect to you, and I'm here doing the podcast. So I would be contradicting myself if I weren't saying in the proper context. Like I said, I'm going to be running my own podcast at some point down the road. I don't have a date yet. And in the ascension model, if you are brand new and you are insecure about getting on television, you're a recently published authorization. I'm going to say doing podcasts can't hurt.

Mitch Carson: Yes, can't hurt. It's a good training ground. Before you can get to high school baseball, you start out with Little League, and then after Little League you go to the minor leagues, to the farm team, and then maybe you make it to the majors. The major leagues in media, broadcast television, live tv, New York City, that is the ultimate, just like in the publishing industry. New York Times bestseller is the Harvard of publishing. I'm putting these brand associations there. New York daytime television show, ultimate for selling books, formerly Oprah. But if you are on a good Morning America, I don't even know all the shows in the out of New York, but those are national television broadcast shows.

Mitch Carson: You can sell potentially hundreds if not thousands of books. That's the ultimate. If you guessed on a show in Las Vegas, depending on the channel and the time that you were broadcast, you might sell five, might sell ten. But it's a way to leverage. I don't know how many people sell books on your podcast. It comes later and it's almost like a magazine in digital form where it's laying around. People might listen to it later. That's the beauty of podcasts.

Mitch Carson: It's at their own time. It's not through a specific time. But you can use television so effectively. I mean, and yeah, I mentioned to.

Mike Capuzzi: You last week, like one of our clients, he's a physician and he gets, when we published his book, he got some local, local affiliate, you know, real, real tv at excellent right.

Mitch Carson: Excellent.

Mike Capuzzi: He did. We tracked the sales because, you know, we watched the, you know, his, because he pointed where he wanted people to go, which is smart. He was thinking at least that way, not just go to Amazon. And he definitely sold some books. Not a lot. It wasn't, it wasn't anything like that's gonna rock your world. What was cool, though, was within a week, he got a new client that found him on that show. Actually, the wife found him and told the husband because it was, his services are for men.

Mike Capuzzi: And then you got to think about the demographic, right, who you're talking to. If you're talking to Gen Z, then, yeah, broadcast media is not going to be that big a deal. You're talking to a 60 year old, you know, man who's, you know, whatever, losing his hair or suffering from something. Chances are he's going to be on more traditional media and that's going to have more of a connection.

Mitch Carson: Well, and he's going to assign a lot more credibility to be covering somebody that's been covered on NBC, ABC, CB's, Fox, or the CW than someone that's been on Billy Bob's podcast. It's just not, there's just not a comparison. And let's, let's face it, at least for the near term. I don't know how old you are, Mike. I'm a baby boomer, and baby boomers have the most money in America still. And we are going to look at where this comes from. Who, what credentials do you have? We're going to investigate this. And, you know, the Gen Z ers may not pay attention to broadcast television, but they don't have our money yet.

Mitch Carson: And we are the ones that maybe are financing Gen Zers. And then we're going to ask, well, where, if you want to get a hair transplant, Jimmy, where did you get, where did you find this doctor? And if it was, oh, I listened to Billy Bob's podcast versus. He was on NBC, was interviewed by, or he was on Doctor Oz. You've got my attention. Doctor Oz is a household name for my demographic. And if you're on Doctor Oz, you're properly vetted. They can't risk having Billy Bob there. They're going to have Doctor Goldberg, who is the expert in hair transplant surgery in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and he's got the credential because he's also got a book or two or a series of books.

Mitch Carson: Smarter series is always Trump's better than one.

Mike Capuzzi: It's funny you mentioned that. I worked with a client not as in a publishing context, but in a direct response marketing context. Now, almost ten years ago, she was already a published book author. She was also a medical doctor. And we got her to a certain. I worked with her for two years and I could only I, you know, I didn't have even like your level expertise. Long story short, after she left us, which we knew, we got it to a certain level. The next thing, Mitch, she was on Doctor Oz.

Mike Capuzzi: She was on good morning, Mary. Multiple now, multiple New York Times bestsellers, right? She is now, if I mentioned her name, a lot of folks would instantly recognize her brand and who she is. And she, and she, you know, so intentional. She wanted that.

Mitch Carson: Like that, right?

Mike Capuzzi: She wanted that. She got it. And it's so cool to see what she's become and a speaker, because that's another part I want to focus our conversation today. Sure, she's on stage. She has her own PBS specials, which is essentially like being on stage, but on tv. What about the opportunities for book authors? How do you help? Or what part of being on stage, what do you mean by that? First, Mitch, and then how do you help book authors?

Mitch Carson: Okay. Part of it, I think the ascension model is today you got to have solid social media. As I mentioned, you can also start writing for different publications that, you know, we could certainly do a part two interview at some point about that whole topic because that is important as well. Credentializing yourself. But to get to stages, it is the reason I do what I do today. When I became an events producer, and I've produced over 2000 events worldwide, I had difficulty finding speakers with the proper credentials, meaning they might have been great content producers. Let's say if I were to book Mike Capuzzi, okay, and you are a multi book author. Great.

Mitch Carson: Super. That's enough. How many times you've been on tv, Mike? Okay. Have you written for Forbes? Have you written for Entrepreneur Press? Have you been on a radio show? Have you been on podcasts before you became a podcast? Let's say you didn't have a podcast show like you do now. Let's just say you were a multi book author. That's good. And if Dan told me, book Mike, he's a good speaker, I might put you on my stage. But in order for me to be successful as a, an events producer, and this is me and other events producer, they need to put butts in seats.

Mitch Carson: How do they successfully put butts and seats? By drawing different sets of eyeballs based on the speakers that are going to be presenting. So if I have a cast of speakers, an array of speakers that are unknowns, have not written a book, have never been in the media, never been on a podcast, never written for any print publications. And it's Billy Smith who is going to talk about AI in today's applications. Hot topic. Going to be around for a while. Big trend. People are going to google him. Learn more about Billy.

Mitch Carson: And Billy is only there. He talks about the following topics, but he's got no logos beneath him, no website with following, no social media presence. Hard to get interest for people to attend his sessions, even in a virtual environment. Whereas you've got Jane, who's got a book or two. She went through Mike's course. You use the services. She's been on several podcasts. She's spoken on such and such stages with video to prove it, snapshots to prove it, money shots to prove it has been on television.

Mitch Carson: Network television proves it. And other promoters that I know in that arena, competitors and or collaborators or friends who are producers have given her a video testimonial saying she's an excellent speaker. She riveted the audience and her sales reflect her value. Because an events producer needs pitch people, not just keynotes people. I'm not in the volunteer business and I'm not a charity for new speakers. Because you just got an award from the local toast toastmasters does not qualify you for being on my stage. As a matter of fact, I found some of the most arrogant speakers in the world come out of toastmasters because they won a local championship. They think they deserve a shot on a professional stage.

Mitch Carson: You are not a professional. You're a little leaguer. You learn to swing the bat and catch the ball. Professional means you've been paid and you've been paid well. And you have a long track record of speaking and closing and selling and providing value to an audience and making the event producer rich. I'm in this for me as I'm being very selfish right now. And you get it. It's that for purpose of example, as an events producer, each spot is valuable.

Mike Capuzzi: Right? Right.

Mitch Carson: Okay. I'm not getting invited on Dan stage today if he's. I don't even know if it's Russell that's producing the super conferences for him. Unless I've got a track record, have I got an intro reel, have I got a testimonial reel, do I have media to produce to show Russell's team that I'm going to deserve a spot on that stage? Will I make Russell money? He's mercenary and he should be. He should be he's not there to bring up the toastmaster who just won the local championship. Give me a shot, Russell. I bought your click funnels. He doesn't care.

Mitch Carson: So, you know.

Mike Capuzzi: So, Mitch, real quick, so just to clarify a little bit, for an author, a book author.

Mitch Carson: Yeah.

Mike Capuzzi: The kind of speaking that you're talking about and getting on stages there. There are two avenues for them. One is the keynote speaker, where it is pure content. Right? That, and they're a paid speaker. The event producer knows they're spending 25,000 on this person because of the draw, the book, whatever. Right? So there is that. So just, you know, there is. There are.

Mike Capuzzi: There is that opportunity. But then there's the opportunity to be on as a paid. Not a paid, but a speaker that can pitch product, service, whatever it is, which is, you know, a lot of listeners probably are familiar with and they've seen it, and that really is. It's a whole other skill set. To your point.

Mitch Carson: Yeah. Well, let me give you an example, though. I can keynote in the speaking arena. I've spoken around the world in 63 countries. Okay? I have been an emcee. I've been a keynote speaker. I've been a pitchman, which comprises about 95% of my speaking. I've been a panelist, I've been a panel leader, and I have also been a trainer, running workshops.

Mitch Carson: Every facet of the speaking business. I can claim I have done some I'm better at than others. I'm an excellent workshop trainer. I'm an excellent pitchman. Keynote, I'm also. I would give myself high marks, probably a nine out of a ten. But as an emcee, I'm probably a five or a six. And as a panelist, I'm good.

Mitch Carson: I. You know, I don't. I mean, that's sort of a lesser known skill set, and it's not as important. Okay. But as a pitch person, I know the game inside and out because my income is dependent on it. And I have been able to train multiple people to be successful selling from the stage. And it's the highest level skill set in the speaking world. It's much easier to be easy to be a trainer because it's subject matter.

Mitch Carson: Over two to three, four days content dumping, and that's it. Okay. You can be a robot to some degree. Got to be interesting. Keynote speaking takes a higher level of skill and training. You've got to rivet an audience for up to 50 minutes, and you live for applause. And your fee based 25K, you had better have a good track record and be a New York Times bestselling author. I want to pop the balloon of delusion.

Mike Capuzzi: That's a good point. Yeah.

Mitch Carson: Yeah. I'm going to pop the balloon of delusion. Thinking, okay, I wrote a book and I should be getting twenty five k. I heard this just last week from a woman. She says, I want my 25,000 if I speak. Hold on. What proof do you have that you've made that I haven't any yet? I said, well, why do you think you deserve that? You're not a New York Times bestselling author. She was a radio show host and I had to pop her balloon.

Mitch Carson: Like, you aren't there yet. It's a model. If someone pays you 25,000, why you have to understand, why would they pay you that kind of money? What kind of a draw? It's all about money. It's a business. If you are a paid professional speaker. Paid, not a toastmaster. I'm not beating on toastmasters. I'm making the distinction.

Mitch Carson: If, if I'm gifted the opportunity to speak on Dan stage coming up at one of his events, if he says, put Mitch on, I had better perform. Mandy, you know, for that spot, I better bring in one hundred k of sales or I'm never getting invited back. And I'm going to get a surly look from Dan and a disappointed look from Russell. I'm disappearing. I'm off their rolodex. Okay. For that kind of stage, you better bring in one hundred k of sales, higher level of skills. Now can you be a keynote and a pitch person? Yes, I've done both.

Mitch Carson: I was offered a keynote stage in front of 6000 in Japan in 2016. I declined it because I told the promoter, I said, I'll take your 25k. Invited me to speak fly me business class. I was living in Bangkok at the time and put me up in a five star hotel, which he did. Flew me business class, which she did. I said, however, let's make more money together. Let me do a keynote of 15 minutes. Day one, teasing them of what I'm going to sell the next day, which I did, and I sold 800,000 and then we split it.

Mitch Carson: Which is better for you, Mister Hashimoto? And I changed his name and he option two. I said, okay, then that's the route we're going to go. So he put me on for 15 minutes. Why did I get that spot? I was the most credentialed of all the 20 speakers. A four day event. I outsold all other speakers combined because I had the most media behind me, and I was the only published author, probably music to your ears, but I'm published in multiple languages, and I have all the media that anybody would drool to have, and I've been published in the Wall Street Journal, et cetera. All those boxes have been checked in my life.

Mike Capuzzi: Mitch, as we start thinking about wrapping up here, I want to just give, paint a picture, because you said you're 63, you have decades. This has taken you decades of skill sets and building and everything that you've done. Let's bring it down because there's no shortcuts. I'm not suggesting there's a shortcut to this, though you do have a unique offer that you bring clients, and we'll talk about that, too, to sort of shortcut some things. But let's say someone's, they're self publishing a book, maybe they're working with traditional publisher. Doesn't matter. And let's say it's going to go live. The book is going to be available on January 1, 2025.

Mike Capuzzi: What is a realistic timeline when that book is done to getting the media training, to building up everything? And let's say they haven't done a lot. They're not starting at square zero. They're, they have a bit of a following. They have a bit of a brand. They've been on, you know, maybe on some podcast, whatever. But they're in elementary school. They're not in, you know, they're not in graduate school. What is a realistic timeline, Mitch, to, you know, maybe not make 25,000, sell a hundred thousand dollars, but to get on stages, to get real media exposure on tv, as a qualified guest, what kind of timeline are we looking at?

Mitch Carson: All right, great question. To get on my show, I need two weeks with you beforehand because I need to work with a person first to get, because I also am a show host. I didn't mention that on NBC. I have my own show called Amazing Authorities, a half hour television show where I deep dive with authors and that's recorded, not live. It's recorded, edited, and then uploaded and it's, and it's aired later. In order to get on my show and to go through my program where I guarantee them for network television interviews, I need about two weeks. Once we do that, then to get, use that leverageable asset to get into other media and to get on stages, I would say most of my, I would, I like to get people as a good training ground if they're not super experienced, but they're content experts in whatever category it is a good place to start speaking and making money is if you once you are comfortable speaking and delivering keynote. Let's start with keynote because selling is a different discussion, different discussion, different skillset.

Mitch Carson: Like you said, different track. But to go down the track of becoming a keynote and possibly making an offer at the end, a light offer like hey, if you want more information, you want to book me for a consult. The route that I've been directing clients on because I was a one time member when I had my ad agency is Vistage. Vistage.com for the list I think it might be vistage.com or vistage.org dot I forgot. But it is a place where CEO's set. So you're going to have real focused decision makers, up to 18 people in a room where you deliver content and you're not supposed to pitch, but they're going to want to buy from you anyway for consulting. It's a great way. And they pay speakers $500 to $1,000 depending on how long you've been with them.

Mitch Carson: But it is a great way to capture footage of you becoming very comfortable with your topic and speaking to real people so you can make back end money. Because the goal of speaking for me, of course, I made a lot of money selling from the stage programs and then I'd never see people again. I did that for years. They'd buy my kit, which we used to call it okay, in the nineties and the early two thousands when I was doing most of my stage selling, they'd buy my kit and I never spoke to them. They spoke to my staff and bought more items or different things that I would sell out of my. Out of my kit. But it was called a kit because it was physical books and whatnot. But to get to that stage, a good track for either a keynote or a professional speaker that has no experience making money or is looking to leverage up and possibly get invited to speak to company retreats where they could make bigger money.

Mitch Carson: Vistage because the organization caters from $5 million minimum in revenue. So these are real businesses that have sops in place, employees, real employees that are on payroll. These are companies, businesses. They might also be part of other networks. And if you do this, you're going to pick up bigger business. You might then get booked as a keynote speaker at the annual conference of Plumbers, the annual conference of chiropractors, dentists, orthopedic practitioners. All of this could come out of these groups. Every speaking gig I have secured in my life has come through referrals everyone.

Mitch Carson: Mike. I'm a very fortunate individual. All of my gigs have come from referral. I have not had to market myself as a speaker. I've done no outreach whatsoever in my.

Mike Capuzzi: Life, which is why it's so critical, to your point of earlier, of having not only the assets, but the credentials, you know, just the experience, the proof. You're not a wannabe, right? You're not a wannabe.

Mitch Carson: So I'm a real deal, and that's why anybody can refer me, and the same can happen for any of your listeners. Credentialize yourself. I think books are incredibly important for any speaker. You got to have it, or you're. If you don't have a book and you want to call yourself a professional speaker, I know you're nothing. It's. It's a calling card. It's a business card.

Mitch Carson: That is critical. And if you don't have a book as a speaker, it's going to be a hard road to walk down. You certainly can't sprint down it. And it's also multiple books. I'm a big fan of a series. I'm in the throes of writing a series on the speaking industry right now. One's going to be released shortly that I'm just editing final touches should be released within a week or two, and I'm going to launch that and push it. And then it's part of a series of three.

Mike Capuzzi: I've had over 240 guests on my podcast as of the recording of this. And we've had the mom who's recording from home, she wrote a book about something very important to her. And that's. That's fine. We've also had CEO's, very successful people running very successful businesses. And I had one on recently, Mitch. And you remind me of him in that now he's even older. He was in his seventies.

Mike Capuzzi: And this guy, like, I was astounded, like, and I said it jokingly and he knew I was joking. I'm like, dude, why aren't you just on the beach or playing golf? Right? And, you know, he just basically said, I'm not done. I'm not done helping people. And here I'm seeing you, you're 63, you're talking about your upcoming book series. Like, what's driving you at this point? Why aren't you just chilling out?

Mitch Carson: Well, I could, and I did retire a few years ago. I was retired living in Chiang Mai, Thailand, and I retired for three years.

Mike Capuzzi: Wow.

Mitch Carson: And I got bored.

Mike Capuzzi: Really? Yeah. Well, I shouldn't be so shocked. Yeah.

Mitch Carson: Yeah, I was bored. Intellectually bored.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah.

Mitch Carson: And I had a pivot point then where someone I wrote on my Facebook, I was still active on Facebook a little bit. I would post, oh, I got my laundry done for eighty cents, and I showed the bag of laundry and one of my friends from La forgot that he even said this. And I ran into him last year at an event. I said, do you know that you were the game changer in my life? That unretired me because you made a point. I'm focusing on the wrong things. I'm focusing on savings versus winning and gaining. And I had become a product of my environment, of people that bragged about how little money they were spending living in Thailand. And here I'd been on the biggest stages in the world, and I have just allowed myself to integrate and be part of the culture of saving money and being frugal, riding around on a motorbike with flip flops and a t shirt.

Mitch Carson: And I've shared the stage with Sir Richard Branson. I've shared the stage with Donald Trump. I've, you know, I've been, uh, in this book and that book and been here and there, and I'm thinking about savings. Shame on me. It wasn't abundance. It was about cutting corners and being frugal. And right after that, I got a call from somebody you might know from Kennedy world, named, uh, Ted Thomas. Ted was speaking in Bangkok at an event, and he knew I was living in Chiang Mai.

Mitch Carson: And he said, Mitch, why don't you come down and speak at my event here and just share your experience of being on the stage for years and your international experience. And I came down and spoke and the biggest event producer in Thailand was there. And they said, God, can we have you speak at our business conference in three months in Bangkok? And it's going to have 600 people. Would you mind doing that? And can you invite any American speaker friends that you know? We'd love to have some Americans like you come and speak. I had the bug again. I came, I had the crowd in my hand. They'd never met anybody quite like me. I invited a couple of my buddies.

Mitch Carson: One flew up from Australia that spoke Pat Mesiti, and I invited Ty Cohen, who was a book guy talking about Kindle books I met on a cruise years before. He came and spoke and I was in the game again. Then they asked me what I helped them with their. All their other events. And all of a sudden, I left Chiang Mai, moved to Bangkok, and I haven't looked back since. I was bored in retirement, Mike, I can't imagine sitting around playing checkers in the park with another older guy and saying, oh, my hip hurts. Oh, God, I gotta see my doctor. I'm on my blood thinners.

Mitch Carson: I mean, oh, that type of. That would age me quickly.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah, amen, too. Yeah.

Mitch Carson: You know, you mentioned the 70 year old man. I'm with him. I have more to give.

Mike Capuzzi: Well, Ty Thomas, I mean, he's, he's your senior, and he's still out there grinding it.

Mitch Carson: He's over 80. Ted's over 80. Ed's 20 years older than me, so he's got to be 83 now. And he is an inspiration for me. He. I asked him the same question you asked me. I said, ted, when? When are you going to stop? He said, why? What would I do? He goes, I hate golf.

Mike Capuzzi: Well, you know, the other interesting point, and it's probably a whole other conversation, but just again, I want to just nail clarify for someone your environment, who you surround yourself. I mean, we all hear this. You read about it, you're like, oh, okay. Uh, uh. It's true. I have two young daughters that just graduated college. They could tell you firsthand. I've preached for years to them about who you surround yourself with.

Mike Capuzzi: That has a dramatic effect on huge everything, you know?

Mitch Carson: Huge.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah. So, and it's easy, to your point, I saw myself ten years ago, and nothing bad. He was a good guy. It just was a different. It was more of a poverty mindset, like you're saying, more about the opposite of abundance. And we would exercise together every day. And I didn't think I was, I thought I was immune to it, but it started sinking in. So, side note, but another key point you brought out today.

Mitch Carson: Sure.

Mike Capuzzi: So, Mitch, as we wrap up here, I know you have. You're in Vegas.

Mitch Carson: Yes, I am.

Mike Capuzzi: You help book authors. Tell us a little bit more. If someone's listening to this, they're reading the transcript, whatever it might be. Where can they learn more about you? Where can they learn more about your program?

Mitch Carson: If they are a book author, and many of them, of course, are, or we're going to talk a little bit more about some of your other people is

https://GetInterviewedGuaranteed.com/meetwithmitch

We will set up an appointment. It's active right now to set up an appointment to discuss the path forward. I mean, I'm not here to pitch on that call. I will make an offer to you if it makes sense for you and for me to work together, if that's fair, if it's something that makes sense for you to jump on, credentialize yourself. And if you want to move forward as a world class speaker and to get into more media, that's where we'll find out if it makes sense. I don't pitch hard. I don't need to.

Mitch Carson: The offer is so compelling because I guarantee you, four tv stations in two days, guaranteed. No publicist in America does that. And I only do it here in Las Vegas. It's a stepping stone to get into bigger media, but it's a great place to cut your teeth, learn how to be effective on camera. You can also with a larger, with my upsell, honestly, is to get on my show, be broadcast. It's a pay to play, but it's a half hour. I have the cameraman from NBC where I broadcast moonlight for me, record a show in my home. We do it in the comfort of my home, and we showcase.

Mitch Carson: You deep dive, exactly where it goes organically, similar to what Mike, you and I did today. We were sort of loose and it just flowed. Yeah. And that's where it went. And that's a great vehicle. So you'll have an additional exposure of 30 minutes to cut up and use as proof that you are, in fact, an expert and know your, know your, know your topic.

Mike Capuzzi: So. And the other thing, Mitch. So when you share, we, we reconnected last week, and I don't know if you recall, but when you. I was asking about it. Right. So there's one of the key differentiators to this program you've put together. It's not a kit anymore, but it's training with you, which is so hugely valuable. I mean, like that alone.

Mike Capuzzi: But then, I don't know if you remember when I said, mitch, what do you charge for this? I had to clarify, I think twice. I'm like, wait, did you. Because I wasn't sure I was hearing you right. And this is not to diminish it. You know, talk about a value proposition. I was surprised. You know, it's a, it's a, it's not inconsequential money, but for the background that you have, what you are bringing to the table for potential client. You know, I'm not sure how long.

Mitch Carson: You’ll be, you know, only, only through the, this year. And then I'm going to reflect the prices because someone, I was on a challenge by this woman who produced something. And I was curious because I was, remember, I'm new back to America. I moved back here in September of last year. I was out of the country all these years. So I sold this program on a limited basis, just one channel interview for a lot of money. It also included guaranteed me on my stage and, and so forth. And that was a, you know, twelve to $15,000 sell for one tv interview and also included preparation and sell.

Mitch Carson: You know, here it's different, it's faster. I do it all in two days. I checked out this woman that had this challenge here to see if my pricing was there. She charged, oh, network television. She charged $60,000.60 grand. And she would open up one network television interview. One. And she was selling people on this because they have the dream for it.

Mitch Carson: I guarantee four. And I'm nowhere near 60 grand, so I will raise my price later. It's a model that I'm going to then replicate around in different markets across the globe, across the US, rather, and.

Mike Capuzzi: Then just share that URL again. You want people to go to get.

Mitch Carson: https://GetInterviewedGuaranteed.com/meetwithmitch

Mike Capuzzi: All one word. We'll have it in the show notes, of course, but just for case someone's listening and driving. Whatever. Well, Mitch, another little feather for your cap. You now have the longest ever author factor podcast interview in over 240 episodes. Five. Almost five years. And again, I was, I wasn't looking at the clock today.

Mitch Carson: I told you I wasn't either. Right? Yeah.

Mike Capuzzi: We set up a special time for this because I wanted this to be a long form conversation. Not that even really to talk about your books, because we didn't even talk about them, but because I know of your background, I know of your reputation, and I know what you've done. And I just thought how, you know, how can I serve my listeners by bringing someone, like, background so well?

Mitch Carson: I appreciate the opportunity, Mike. I really do. I'm humbled to be accepted interviewed by you because I know you're well. No, I say that with humility, as I don't. The ego is gone from when I was in my forties, thought I suffered from big shot itis, which is a bad virus. But I've taken the right medication. You know, I'm just humbled to be, to be, to be working and to be alive and to be able to contribute and collaborate with people like yourself and other people that are of the same mindset that want to help people.

Mike Capuzzi: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it and truly appreciate your time today and look forward to seeing how you can help some of my listeners.

Mitch Carson: Great. Thanks, Mike.